Here are my thoughts on ticket scalping / re-sellers.

Warning: long and likely boring!

posted by trent reznor at 11:13am

discuss @ nin.com

added by dori: since trent’s explanation of the whole re-seller/scalper business is a really great reading, i decided to post it here, too.

source: nin.com forums

As we approach on-sale dates for the upcoming tour, I’ve noticed lots of you are curious / concerned / outraged at the plethora of tickets that somehow appear on all these reseller sites at inflated prices – even before the pre-sale dates. I’ll do my best to explain the situation as I see it, as well as clarify my organization’s stance in the matter.

NIN decides to tour this summer. We arrive at the conclusion outdoor amphitheaters are the right venue for this outing, for a variety of reasons we’ve throughly considered*. In the past, NIN would sell the shows in each market to local promoters, who then “buy” the show from us to sell to you. Live Nation happens to own all the amphitheaters and bought most of the local promoters – so if you want to play those venues, you’re being promoted by Live Nation. Live Nation has had an exclusive deal with TicketMaster that has just expired, so Live Nation launched their own ticketing service. Most of the dates on this tour are through Live Nation, some are through TicketMaster – this is determined by the promoter (Live Nation), not us.
Now we get into the issue of secondary markets for tickets, which is the hot issue here. The ticketing marketplace for rock concerts shows a real lack of sophistication, meaning this: the true market value of some tickets for some concerts is much higher than what the act wants to be perceived as charging. For example, there are some people who would be willing to pay $1,000 and up to be in the best seats for various shows, but MOST acts in the rock / pop world don’t want to come off as greedy pricks asking that much, even though the market says its value is that high. The acts know this, the venue knows this, the promoters know this, the ticketing company knows this and the scalpers really know this. So…

The venue, the promoter, the ticketing agency and often the artist camp (artist, management and agent) take tickets from the pool of available seats and feed them directly to the re-seller (which from this point on will be referred to by their true name: SCALPER). I am not saying every one of the above entities all do this, nor am I saying they do it for all shows but this is a very common practice that happens more often than not. There is money to be made and they feel they should participate in it. There are a number of scams they employ to pull this off which is beyond the scope of this note.

StubHub.com is an example of a re-seller / scalper. So is TicketsNow.com.

Here’s the rub: TicketMaster has essentially been a monopoly for many years – certainly up until Live Nation’s exclusive deal ran out. They could have (and can right now) stop the secondary market dead in its tracks by doing the following: limit the amount of sales per customer, print names on the tickets and require ID / ticket matches at the venue. We know this works because we do it for our pre-sales. Why don’t THEY do it? It’s obvious – they make a lot of money fueling the secondary market. TicketMaster even bought a re-seller site and often bounces you over to that site to buy tickets (TicketsNow.com)!

NIN gets 10% of the available seats for our own pre-sale. We won a tough (and I mean TOUGH) battle to get the best seats. We require you to sign up at our site (for free) to get tickets. We limit the amount you can buy, we print your name on the tickets and we have our own person let you in a separate entrance where we check your ID to match the ticket. We charge you a surcharge that has been less than TicketMaster’s or Live Nation’s in all cases so far to pay for the costs of doing this – it’s not a profit center for us. We have essentially stopped scalping by doing these things – because we want true fans to be able to get great seats and not get ripped off by these parasites.

I assure you nobody in the NIN camp supplies or supports the practice of supplying tickets to these re-sellers because it’s not something we morally feel is the right thing to do. We are leaving money on the table here but it’s not always about money.
Being completely honest, it IS something I’ve had to consider. If people are willing to pay a lot of money to sit up front AND ARE GOING TO ANYWAY thanks to the rigged system, why let that money go into the hands of the scalpers? I’m the one busting my ass up there every night. The conclusion really came down to it not feeling like the right thing to do – simple as that.

My guess as to what will eventually happen if / when Live Nation and TicketMaster merges is that they’ll move to an auction or market-based pricing scheme – which will simply mean it will cost a lot more to get a good seat for a hot show. They will simply BECOME the scalper, eliminating them from the mix.

Nothing’s going to change until the ticketing entity gets serious about stopping the problem – which of course they don’t see as a problem. The ultimate way to hurt scalpers is to not support them. Leave them holding the merchandise. If this subject interests you, check out the following links. Don’t buy from scalpers, and be suspect of artists singing the praises of the Live Nation / TicketMaster merger. What’s in it for them?
















* I fully realize by playing those venues we are getting into bed with all these guys. I’ve learned to choose my fights and at this point in time it would be logistically too difficult to attempt to circumvent the venues / promoter / ticketing infrastructure already in place for this type of tour. For those of you about to snipe “it’s your fault for playing there, etc… ” – I know it is.



  1. Brian

    Yes, very interesting … the auction theory is very interesting (and disturbing) and seems more likely the more I think about it. 😦

  2. chris

    i knew it was a scam all along.. now with sites like ticketsnow.com// it just proves it.
    One of my favorite bands, smashing pumpkins… are for this merger.. either way, people are always going to pay high prices because they will never do what trent said can be done here…putting names on the ticket and requiring ID… these companies wouldnt make the money they want by doing this.. so either way we are fuked.

  3. dans

    This system and a new business entity needs to be created to derail these thieving -bastards-. I wonder how much impact musicians & fans can have in manifesting such a thing….and refuse to settle on the idea we all need to eat shit and like it.

    Thanks for your candid perspective.

  4. Pingback: Who Needs Tickets? « The Alder Fork

  5. D

    We know this works because we do it for our pre-sales. Trent…Your system doesn’t work. The fan club tickets that come from your site are not fool proof and land in the hands of scalpers like me all the time. I’m a scalper and @ the show you had at the Forum in Los Angeles about 6 months ago, I was getting those fancy tickets with the name on them and turning around and selling them. They don’t check I.D. except for will call to pick up the tickets and even with that special entrance, the barcode works for all entry’s or doors that take tickets for that venue and the ushers don’t check I.D. to get in your seat. With that special entrance you are letting us know where to stand to get the good seats. We actually help your fans out by buying there extra tickets off of them so they don’t get stuck overpaying to see you and put another fan in that seat. We scalpers even have tickets sometimes for face value and less than face value and we don’t charge any fucking service charges or venue fee’s…lol.We are just trying to make a living off of a market that’s already there….

    1. Dori Doreau

      congratulations for a combined asshole AND idiot of the month award. if you’d be just as half as clever as you want us to believe, you’d know how to find an official forum to leave the note, instead shitting in a private blog without any connection to nin.

      mission failed.

  6. Petey

    Write to your congressman/woman: Make the resale of tickets by more than $5 over face value – any venue, any location, any technology, by any parties – punishable by a $1,000 fine per ticket. Make this a FEDERAL law. Include in the law a clause that holds web-hosting services equally guilty for allowing the listing of ticket resales. Enforce the law mercilessly. BRING BACK TICKET PRICING AND SALES TO SUPPORT THE ARTISTS AND THEIR AUDIENCES, not the rotten scalpers.


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